syronj · Jan 19, 2011, 12:50 PM // 12:50

I have the Trilogy and EotN installed at home. I was wondering -- when we play the game, is most of it taking place on our PCs or is it on the servers? Sorry for this basic question.

Rushin Roulette · Jan 19, 2011, 12:57 PM // 12:57

If your in an outpost then the processes are on the Anet servers. Not too sur eabout when our in an explorable though as that could be either on the Servers or on one of the Computers of a player on the team... But it is most likely also on the server.

Your Computer would only be working with adding the textures to the game so that you can see it normally on your screen.

Bristlebane · Jan 19, 2011, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Virtually everything is done on the server, otherwise it would be vulnerable to hacking. Basically anyone can forge/manipulate data in the client but it means nothing if it's the server handling it all.

Silmar Alech · Jan 19, 2011, 02:28 PM // 14:28

You can see the game client as a viewer of the real action that takes place on the servers. The client only visualizes what's going on.

How tightly the client is connected with the servers can be seen when network issues arise. If your network is stalled or disconnected, all action on the client freezes immediately and continues as soon as the network is up again. If you recover from network issues, you will see that all action did continue even without your presence.

syronj · Jan 19, 2011, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Thanks for the informative replies.

Quaker · Jan 19, 2011, 04:58 PM // 16:58

To put it another way, most of the processing that involves where people, objects and terrain are, and how they interact, is done on the servers. The servers, however, don't need any graphics or sounds. The graphics and sounds are processed on the client machines.

On the server, it's just a bunch of "digital objects" moving through a virtual space. There is no need for these objects to have any graphics or textures and there's no need for any sounds, or damage displays, etc. All the graphics, textures, sounds, etc. are done by the clients, the server just tells that clients which graphics, textures, sounds, etc., to use.

Chrisworld · Jan 19, 2011, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quaker couldn't have said it any better.

And it's pretty much this way for every MMO... unless you run some sort of local emulator or something.

syronj · Jan 19, 2011, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

To put it another way, most of the processing that involves where people, objects and terrain are, and how they interact, is done on the servers. The servers, however, don't need any graphics or sounds. The graphics and sounds are processed on the client machines..

Interesting; I had never heard this. Thanks.

magao · Jan 19, 2011, 08:29 PM // 20:29

I actually suspect that DDO leaves a significant amount of the (initial/projected) processing to the client. This is visible in that in any instance the avatar being controlled by that instance acts earlier than other instances see them.

A simple example is if you set up a synced /dance. If you have 3 instances, in any instance the other two will be synced, but the one you're looking at will be slightly ahead.

It also shows up if you start a race between two characters ... both of them will seem to be leading the race. The only way to decide a winner is to have a third instance watching the finish line.

This technique is most likely used to "smooth out" network issues - it explicitly allows (or introduces) delay to/from the server. If there are bad enough network problems, you just freeze. In fact, if you look at the voice chat options, there is a minimum of 100ms delay, with a default of 500ms IIRC. 500ms is near unusable (half a second is more than enough for someone to run through a trap before they hear the warning).

In GW OTOH all instances are kept in sync with each other, hence why a mass candy corn sync dance is possible. Your avatar doesn't act until it's told where everything is in the instance. This doesn't mean that two instances of GW will show exactly the same thing - if one has a 250ms delay, and one a 1000ms delay, the second will display things later. But it does mean that all avatars in a single instance will be referencing the same moment in time on the server.

Obviously there's a small amount of smoothing, but it's unnoticeable. If there are network problems you either tend to get "jumps" as the client updates everything to the correct state (if the delays are on your end) or individual avatars jumping (if the delays are on someone else's end).

In the end, with all MMOs the server will be the ultimate arbitrator of what went on, but with some (like DDO) the client anticipates what the server will decide - the client never matches the server exactly. Personally, I prefer the way GW does it, where a single frame in the client matches a single moment on the server (delayed some small amount).

Bristlebane · Jan 19, 2011, 09:01 PM // 21:01

In other words, client is trying to predict ahead of what is happening, which is the very reason that rubberbanding exists.. client predicted you were you would have been running and sometimes things goes wrong. Then server resync with client and player goes wtf!

Jan 19, 2011, 12:50 PM // 12:50	#1
syronj Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jun 2007	Where is GW being processed, on PC or server? I have the Trilogy and EotN installed at home. I was wondering -- when we play the game, is most of it taking place on our PCs or is it on the servers? Sorry for this basic question.

Jan 19, 2011, 04:58 PM // 16:58	#6
Quaker Hell's Protector Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Canada Guild: Brothers Disgruntled	To put it another way, most of the processing that involves where people, objects and terrain are, and how they interact, is done on the servers. The servers, however, don't need any graphics or sounds. The graphics and sounds are processed on the client machines. On the server, it's just a bunch of "digital objects" moving through a virtual space. There is no need for these objects to have any graphics or textures and there's no need for any sounds, or damage displays, etc. All the graphics, textures, sounds, etc. are done by the clients, the server just tells that clients which graphics, textures, sounds, etc., to use. Last edited by Quaker; Jan 19, 2011 at 05:07 PM // 17:07..

Jan 19, 2011, 08:29 PM // 20:29	#9
magao Academy Page Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Australia Guild: Order of Pussycat Mountain [OPCM] Profession: N/	I actually suspect that DDO leaves a significant amount of the (initial/projected) processing to the client. This is visible in that in any instance the avatar being controlled by that instance acts earlier than other instances see them. A simple example is if you set up a synced /dance. If you have 3 instances, in any instance the other two will be synced, but the one you're looking at will be slightly ahead. It also shows up if you start a race between two characters ... both of them will seem to be leading the race. The only way to decide a winner is to have a third instance watching the finish line. This technique is most likely used to "smooth out" network issues - it explicitly allows (or introduces) delay to/from the server. If there are bad enough network problems, you just freeze. In fact, if you look at the voice chat options, there is a minimum of 100ms delay, with a default of 500ms IIRC. 500ms is near unusable (half a second is more than enough for someone to run through a trap before they hear the warning). In GW OTOH all instances are kept in sync with each other, hence why a mass candy corn sync dance is possible. Your avatar doesn't act until it's told where everything is in the instance. This doesn't mean that two instances of GW will show exactly the same thing - if one has a 250ms delay, and one a 1000ms delay, the second will display things later. But it does mean that all avatars in a single instance will be referencing the same moment in time on the server. Obviously there's a small amount of smoothing, but it's unnoticeable. If there are network problems you either tend to get "jumps" as the client updates everything to the correct state (if the delays are on your end) or individual avatars jumping (if the delays are on someone else's end). In the end, with all MMOs the server will be the ultimate arbitrator of what went on, but with some (like DDO) the client anticipates what the server will decide - the client never matches the server exactly. Personally, I prefer the way GW does it, where a single frame in the client matches a single moment on the server (delayed some small amount). Last edited by magao; Jan 19, 2011 at 08:31 PM // 20:31..

Jan 19, 2011, 12:57 PM // 12:57	#2
Rushin Roulette Forge Runner Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Right here Guild: Ende	If your in an outpost then the processes are on the Anet servers. Not too sur eabout when our in an explorable though as that could be either on the Servers or on one of the Computers of a player on the team... But it is most likely also on the server. Your Computer would only be working with adding the textures to the game so that you can see it normally on your screen.

Jan 19, 2011, 01:59 PM // 13:59	#3
Bristlebane Desert Nomad Join Date: Jan 2008 Profession: Mo/	Virtually everything is done on the server, otherwise it would be vulnerable to hacking. Basically anyone can forge/manipulate data in the client but it means nothing if it's the server handling it all.

Jan 19, 2011, 02:28 PM // 14:28	#4
Silmar Alech Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Europe Guild: Tom Son [TS] Profession: E/	You can see the game client as a viewer of the real action that takes place on the servers. The client only visualizes what's going on. How tightly the client is connected with the servers can be seen when network issues arise. If your network is stalled or disconnected, all action on the client freezes immediately and continues as soon as the network is up again. If you recover from network issues, you will see that all action did continue even without your presence.

Jan 19, 2011, 02:44 PM // 14:44	#5
syronj Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jun 2007	Thanks for the informative replies.

Jan 19, 2011, 05:29 PM // 17:29	#7
Chrisworld Krytan Explorer Join Date: Aug 2010 Guild: Gameamp Guides [AMP] Profession: W/	Quaker couldn't have said it any better. And it's pretty much this way for every MMO... unless you run some sort of local emulator or something.

Jan 19, 2011, 09:01 PM // 21:01	#10
Bristlebane Desert Nomad Join Date: Jan 2008 Profession: Mo/	In other words, client is trying to predict ahead of what is happening, which is the very reason that rubberbanding exists.. client predicted you were you would have been running and sometimes things goes wrong. Then server resync with client and player goes wtf!